Why Brands Evolve: Navigating the Death of Traditional Marketing
Molly Baker, Founder and CEO of Indie Consulting was able to sit down with Justine Fisher, Strategic and Creative Brand Management Leader at Pernod Ricard, the second leading global spirits company. Follow along as these two successful women discuss topics such as brand marketing, digital transformation in regards to brand growth, and the characteristics they look for in individuals during the hiring process.
Molly Baker [MB]: Tell me a little bit about what you're thinking, and what you are up to professionally today.
Justine Fisher [JF]: I'm thinking about 3 things pretty consistently. First of all I think a lot about how brand marketing is no longer all about being the best classically trained brand marketer. There's really this death of classically trained marketing and what feels like a new era of how to go to market, how to bring a brand to life that's changing the landscape, and making lots of companies think differently about marketing in general. The second thing that I think about a lot is the creator economy and how it's influencing and expanding the way we buy stuff. Then, the last thing that I'm thinking about, but I don't have any sort of institutional knowledge on, is AI, but I can't quite figure out how it applies to my industry or to me yet.
MB: Talk to me a little more about the death of the traditional brand marketer.
JF: Yeah. I grew up in CPG. Some of my most formative years were in CPG, both at a big CPG company and then at a smaller one as well. I just think about how people experience, and find new brands today. I can’t quite wrap my head around the slow pace of these bigger CPG companies who subscribe to classically trained marketing methods, it’s too slow.
MB: It's really interesting as you think about the different go to market strategies that exist today. Do you feel it’s harder for bigger brands and organizations to adopt those?
JF: I think innovation is such an interesting topic to think about when you apply classically trained brand marketing methods or strategies. I think big companies aren't necessarily innovating, they're just good at launching line extensions.
MB: What’s your POV on the brands that are doing it really well today? What are they doing right?
JF: So I think there are some brands that stand out because they innovate really well, or come to market in an interesting way. I think those brands are inherently a lot smaller, but have a really unique point of view. One that's fascinating, and I've been following lately, is Paynter Jacket Co. They're doing something really purposeful, choiceful, and methodical, and they make really beautiful classic jackets.
The other brand that I've been following and love is Vacation Inc. They've captured their consumer in the voice, and they do such a good job at bringing a distinct personality to the Internet, and to their products.
MB: What aspects do you think every brand foundationally needs to have today?
JF: I think a brand has to have a distinct personality. You have to do a great job, not only visually, but with your tone of voice, and with your story. In my experience, the best brands have a really strong founder behind them or a really strong vision. Also, I think you've got to have the right price by knowing exactly what the marketplace looks like and how you fit in it. The last thing is good branding and packaging because it is a really interesting way to retell your story.
MB: How do you think the digital transformation and evolution over the past 5 to 10 years has shifted branding? What do you see as the primary differences today?
JF: I think to no one's surprise, people are mostly consuming content and learning about new brands through their phone. As an example, I'm scrolling through my phone on various different channels all day long so I think discovery is much more oriented towards that experience. That’s why I'm kind of fascinated with the influencer and creator economy. I think they are a big piece in influencing how people discover new brands and buy new brands.
For food and beverage, though, it's been really interesting to see how those types of companies are able to leverage digital technology. I think the bulk of people still purchase groceries in stores, and we're starting to see delivery companies raise their fees in order to remain in the game, and consumers aren't as willing to pay for those.
So, with that, I think there's a more traditional mix of marketing and advertising and it's not as impacted by digital technology in the same way.
MB: So tell us who you are. The big reveal.
JF: My name is Justine Fisher. Right now I am a brand director at a major alcohol company running 4 tequila and mezcal businesses.
It’s been a really interesting journey. Prior to this job, I worked at Chobani for almost a decade, and experienced the company grow. I've always been involved in the branding world which is definitely a dynamic job.
MB: How are you finding the alcohol space?
JF: It’s such a refreshing change from food and beverage because it's just fun. The brands I run today are all smaller, founder-led brands, but partially owned by the big company I work for. It's been a really interesting cross section to work within.
MB: What does an average day in the life look like for you professionally?
JF: It changes every day, which is kind of interesting. I'm in the office quite a bit because I really love in-person connection. Often I'm changing context in a lot of different ways like looking at new creative, brainstorming, or thinking about how to pull talent together for a new team. One of the things I love so much is it's super dynamic.
MB: What does your team structure look like?
JF: It’s a group of really talented brand managers, and then a few global folks who are on the content side or marketing activation side.
MB: Talk to me more about brand management. What does it look like? What other pieces are there?
JF: I think there's a lot of different subspecialties within marketing that really have emerged over the last decade.
In my role, I am more in the middle which means I have lots of different things that sit within my purview of decision making. That could range from how the brand shows outwardly to consumers, or to managing the financials. What makes it interesting is how you have to think about different pieces of the business through other lenses in order to make the right decisions for your brands.
MB: What would you say is the best part? What are the highs and lows of your role?
JF: The best part is the people that I work with. I have some really talented folks. They are smart, creative, ambitious, and hardworking.
My sweet spot of my career has been launching innovation, bringing new products to market, and working with founder led businesses and growing them. Being able to do these things at a big company has been a true joy.
The low for me is more personal than professional which means, trying to think about what kind of risks I want to take in my life. Or, what’s the legacy I want to leave behind and what does that look like? That’s a question that challenges me daily.
MB: Tell me what you look for when hiring someone. What types of qualities stand out to you when you’re trying to find people for your team?
JF: I look for someone who is incredibly ambitious, hungry, smart, and eager to learn. That has been a really helpful kind of set of criteria. I've found that some of the most successful people I've hired or worked with always have that itch to do a little more or are really strong self-starters.
The second thing that I really look for is a diversity of experience. For the personal side of their experience, what are they interested in? What motivates them? What has shaped their view or perspective, and how can that bring value to the team.
MB: Circling back to the first point of finding someone who’s a self starter and ambitious, how do you discover that in the interview process?
JF: I think it's something that innately comes through. I've always been a fan of casing where you can really probe and pressure test how someone would think through a problem, especially one that you would be facing. It shows how someone handles ambiguity, how they handle pressure, or how they might apply different types of thought processes.
The second piece is the level of preparedness. An understanding of if they've been thoughtful about the job, or if they’ve exercised thought into how their skill set might apply.
MB: What advice would you give to someone who's looking to start their career in marketing?
JF: The best advice is to just start. It can be hard and intimidating to put yourself, and your ideas out there, but it is really important to just start somewhere and go for it.
The other piece of advice is to have a strong personal brand. Your brand is more than just your resume or experiences, so you have to think about the platforms that people come across your experiences.
MB: At 21, when you were finishing college, did you ever think you'd be in the role that you're in now?
JF: I think I had more vision at 21 than I do today in terms of where I wanted to take my career. I knew I was good at branding and marketing because I had the most interest and success within those classes. But, I think it’s hard to look ahead completely, because things are constantly changing, and sometimes other avenues come up that you want to explore.
Trendy or Tragic
JF: Trendy. I love when women get together to hang out and have fun.
King Charles and Camilla’s Recent Appearances in the Headlines
JF: I don't know a lot about the royal family, so I'm gonna go with tragic, but I'm really not sure.
JF: Trendy. I am a Colleen Hoover fan and I liked Verity. I love a good beach read, and I feel like she would sit in good beach reads.
Check out Justine Fisher on LinkedIn & @pernodricardusa on Instagram and pernod-ricard.com.
As for us, follow @namedrop.pod on Instagram & LinkedIn and @molbakes on Instagram for all future episodes and insights.
