Mastering Sales Through Connection: Timeless Tactics for Today’s Market
Join Molly Baker, Founder of Indie Consulting and Bert Scott, highly experienced packaging salesperson of the Stephen Gould Corporation as they delve into the world of BtoB sales, and how the industry has changed over the last thirty years. In this episode, Bert gives listeners exclusive insight on his unique journey from directing funerals to becoming a respected salesperson in an incredibly competitive niche in the industry. Bert and Molly also get real about what aspects of sales will always be important, no matter how much the business changes with time.
MB (Molly Baker): So without revealing who you are, talk about your professional life right now.
BS (Bert Scott): I've been doing what I do for 32 years now. I consider myself in that elder statesman status, which is a nice way of saying I'm not working very hard. Honestly, I feel like at this point, I've earned the right. I've earned the position to think I'm pretty good at what I do, and therefore, I can autopilot, but I'm not working anywhere near as hard as I have for the previous probably 30 years. Because the previous 30 years, I worked hard. I put in a lot of time. I actually haven't really tracked it, but I work a few hours a day. My job has also changed. Like everyone else's in the world, COVID changed my job dramatically. The necessity to go on the road or get face to face has kind of faded, at least for me. If I was starting out in my career, it would be different. I would have to be doing the same thing I did 30 years ago.
MB: What are you really good at?
BS: I'm a pretty good salesman. I'm a good communicator. I pride myself on what I thought was my communication skills. I've always valued it, I guess. Not just in my business career, but just in all ways. I've always kind of enjoyed trying to connect the way we are right now.
Making eye contact, and trying to really listen and maybe not talk as much as I am right now, which is part of communication skills. I always felt pretty comfortable engaging with people. It's something that I remember even as a young man looking for opportunities to do and enjoying it.
I think that the ability to engage, the ability to probe, the ability to understand what's happening in the client's world is every bit or maybe more important than the ability to present your capabilities in your company. It’s way more about listening.
MB: What relationship has been most impactful on you professionally?
BS: My dad. I worked with my dad for 10 years, 11 years in a family owned business. And my dad, interestingly enough, is one of those people that naturally was quiet. He didn't have to discipline himself to be quiet. He actually was one of the last guys to speak in the room, and naturally people would listen. He was a talented guy. He was a good businessman, but he was a talented guy, and I worked really closely with him in the funeral industry. Which is a really strange path to sales. I've thought about it a lot. And if we agree that effective communication is maybe one of the most important characteristics of a good salesperson, spending 10 years dealing with people in the midst of the worst days of their lives, and being good at it and learning when to speak, when not to speak was a good learning ground for me as it relates to to communication skills.
MB: So who are you, and what do you do today?
BS: I'm Bert Scott. I'm a packaging salesperson, and I represent a company called the Stephen Gould Corporation, which is a privately owned company in Whippany, New Jersey. And I use the term represent because I'm not an employee of Stephen Gould. I'm an independent contractor. I'm 100% commission sales. I don't get paid a salary. I don't get my expenses reimbursed. I don't get any benefits. I basically work for myself, and I partner with this organization. And that's what I've done for 30 something years.
MB: how does one go from funeral funerals to packaging sales?
BS: Well, when my family sold the funeral business, we were acquired by a big public entity that owns hundreds of funeral homes around the world. I was 28 years old, and I was gonna be bigger than Elvis. They were gonna make me the general manager of the northeastern region, and then my dad retired. And 90 days later, I said, screw this. I liked it, but I didn't love it. I wanted to get out of the funeral business. I was tired of dealing with people in the midst of the saddest days of their lives. I bought a 1988 Ford turbo coupe, and I decided to drive around the country by myself. I was dating Kelly, who is now my wife, and I broke up with her. And I got in my turbo coupe, and I headed south, and basically discovered that all I was doing was visiting friends, drinking too much and sleeping on their couch. That was my big adventure. I got to Florida, and a good friend of mine said, “what are you doing?” And I thought; Well,I've got the turbo coupe. And he said, “you're just wandering around. You should come to work from the company that I'm with.” And he was with a company called Bell Atlantic Tricon And I said “Alright. I'll do it.” They hired me as a sales guy, calling on business equipment companies, and I would sell them our leasing services. So it was B to B sales. I did that for a few years, and it was very corporate. I decided I wanted to find a business to buy. I went to Gould and started there. I haven't left
MB: In what ways has your approach to sales changed over the years?
BS: It is very different now. I learned very quickly that if I woke up on Monday morning without a plan for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'd almost lose the week. And then you would just wander around cold calling. So on Thursdays, I would do what was called what I call demon dialing, and I would just telemark it like a madman. And people answered their phones back then. This was before email. I mean, people answered their phones. I would just grind out.
MB: So what was the biggest thing you learned those first two years?
BS: I learned the importance of inherent optimism. That maybe was the most important thing that I came away with. Because without it, I would have failed. After a while I gave myself 6 months. I said that I was going to change it up. I realized that I was somewhat selling scared. So, I intentionally shifted and started to say things like, “do you see me here often? Do you know that you don't buy anything from me? I talked to your engineering department, your quality department, your manufacturing department, your shipping receiving department, and your purchasing department. I'm here all the time, and you don't buy anything. And the purchasing agent would turn to his computer and say, “do you still sell static shielding bags? And I would say, “of course.” And he goes, “I need 10,000.” Before the day is over, I would have a price for him. At the time, cell phones were really novel. And within a few years, I was doing a ton of business with them.
MB: Do you think that those types of tactics are still effective today, or do you think that you need to make a digital touch first?
BS: I communicate a lot because of my elder statesman status. I communicate a lot with younger salespeople in Gould. There's 350 plus people just like me. And I have the good fortune of having a reputation as someone that is willing to help young salespeople. I try to understand the world that they're living in, and it's a really difficult one. Sending out email blasts and data farming through LinkedIn. It is completely foreign to me. I never did anything like that.
I have a hard time relating to the world that they're in. And therefore, I decided that my way is still the right way because I have nothing else to offer them. So I say to them, “You gotta get in front of people.” As hard as it may be, you gotta get in front of people. Because if you're just one more email in their inbox, you're just one more email until they meet you. And in my business, you are really truly selling yourself. Because there's 6,000,000,000 packaging companies out there. I also always emphasize the importance of presentation. It is one of the tools that a salesperson has. It's totally in their control. How they dress is impactful. And I was probably over the top anal about it. I don’t feel like every day was a fashion show. But when you're sitting in a lobby with 7 salespeople, It's an easy win. I always wanted to wear a suit. I always wanted to be well dressed. And maybe it had no impact on the client. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but it had an impact on me.
MB: So how much of your success over the years do you think has been because of luck versus hard work?
BS: I'm not so much a believer in luck. The harder you work, the luckier you get. I just think there's so much opportunity in all areas. And in this country that we live in, if you work hard, you'll figure it out. You just get up to bat as many times as you can. And if you get up to bat 10 times, you're gonna have 2 hits.
Trendy or Tragic:
Tragic. I haven't played one moment of pickleball. In fact, it's become a matter of principle for me. I refuse to play pickleball. I put tennis in the same arena as pickleball. Anything that creates a herd mentality of style and new clothing and gloves, I hate stuff like that.
Seasonal Trends (Holiday Flavors):
It's a total tragedy. It's all fake. It's toxins. It's endocrine disruptors. Especially the pumpkin spice. I can feel my endocrine’s getting disrupted just thinking about pumpkin spice candles.
Black leather Motorcycle Boots:
Oh, trendy. Once trendy, always trendy. I wish I had some on right now. I was ahead of my time. I don't have them anymore. Can I tell the audience the story? I was wearing these boots, and I thought they were really cool. And I will admit I was wearing them with tight jeans, so it looked really ridiculous because of the tight jeans and the big boots. We were at my house, and Molly was a little girl. The adults in the room were like, “what is with those stupid boots?” And I loved them. And then I figured, you know, I'll appeal to someone with a more contemporary fashion sense. And I said; “Molly, what do you think of those boots?” And she said, “those are really stupid. Those boots are stupid.”
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